Introduction

after the last HPC2 ended, i noted the south track of SIC humbled a lot of cars. apart fr not knowing the racing lines, got passenger oso affects power-to-weight, tyre too hot, no coilover, got coilover but setting oso not right, mugen suspension cannot perform, stock suspension can perform .... a major interesting topic for discussion that has come out of it is .... BRAKES

.... so might as well start a Brakes & BBK thread to discuss tis matter. i started a little bit thro the new Spoon BBK thread but lets keep it focussed here.

we can talk about calipers, ssbh, brake pads, rotors .... etc. tats all. anything related to braking can. nothing related to braking .... pls go create your own somewhere else.

TQ.

awhile back, i posted this on bro taka's BBK thread. i think it will be useful to consolidate it here.

How to Upgrade/Improve your Braking Capability
think for those who are seriously looking at upgrading their brakes , tis would be my recommended path if budget is a challenge & u prefer a stepped approach ....

Step 1.
Upgrade to SSBH (bleed the old brake oil out then change to a good dot4 brake fluid as well)

Step 2.
Change to aftermkt front brake pads such as EBC Blackstuff (400C) or Greenstuff (450C) ... if more $$ to spare then can go Endless, Ferodo etc etc pads w higher temperature rating

Step 3.
if ur rear pads going off ... upgrade to similar brand lo ...

Step 4.
look for front slotted rotors, 1 piece ... if u guys got better budget then only go for 2-pc rotors
forget about driller rotors cos the holes will reduce the brake pad surface area for grip.

Step 5.
Finally only look at the 4pot calipers if u find the braking still not sufficient....

Step 6 - Others considerations
another important area to address in upgrading your brakes is brake cooling ducts... no point brake physical upgrade but dont hv enough cooling.

ask around bros who hv upgraded their braking system ... few things to note would be brake bite .... you prefer the eagle claw bite or progressive ??? means a lot ....

Step 7.
Brake calipers - 4pot or 6pot ... well unless u drive like a mad dog, 4-pot is more than suffice but 6-pot got bling2x factor.

and CTR ori brembos cannot fit our FD2 ... its too thick.... an important thing to note when u start on calipers is the wheel size & offset.

Step 8
finally, learn how to bed in your brake pads & rotors when its new.

Only 1 Step
off course u can forget above recommendation if u decide to get a full BBK set direct .... basically comes w calipers, rotors , brackets, pads etc etc ... but some may or may not come w SSBH (which is only for the front )

Budgeting
for those shopping around .... here are some indicative pricing.... Endless 4-pot only (RM8k+), Spoon monoblock 4-pot (RM5k) ... Brembo 4-pot (RM5k) .... AP Racing 4-pot (RM11k) .... these are only caliper pricing only ... for the rotors be prepared to add another RM1.5-2k/pair of fronts only. u must oso decide between 282mm, 303mm, 320/330mm rotors ... all of which means brackets need to be customised for it.

VTTR is suppose to make OEM Taiwan Endless calipers. i hv compared it .... its the same... the Brembos for our FD is based on Accord Euro R CL7 ... its made in Taiwan as well....

How about 2nd hand stuff ?
when buying 2nd hand calipers .... be prepared to budget additional rm600-1000 for customising new brackets to hold the brake calipers (if its not a direct bolt on) and another RM100-600 for wheel spacers ... i think bro taka got a value for $$ wheel spacers.

end of day,,, its better to get a caliper set which is a direct bolt on...

can i start by asking where can we purchase the Spoon Calipers?

I know VTTR can be purchased through QS ..

Have tried the VTTR 6-pot and i think the bite is instant and not progressive ..

My current Project Miu caliper and pad is good but sometimes my response is kinda slow and too late .. so a bigger BBK with instant stop power would suit my need ...

only predicament now is where to find a rear BBK .. look forward for a fruitful discussion here ...

there are no Spoon reseller in Msia and neither are there in Spore. only got parallel importers.

becos these are slow moving items, they are only brought in when there is a confirmed order. same goes to the rest of the brands.

the Spoons got 2 types .... monoblock & twinblock. i hv tried the Spoon monoblocks they are pretty good. but the caliper alone does not determine the type of bite. its mainly the brake pads.

Anybody here want to start a Club Buy for Spoon BBK ka ???

netken wrote:

can i start by asking where can we purchase the Spoon Calipers? I know VTTR can be purchased through QS .. Have tried the VTTR 6-pot and i think the bite is instant and not progressive .. My current Project Miu caliper and pad is good but sometimes my response is kinda slow and too late .. so a bigger BBK with instant stop power would suit my need ... only predicament now is where to find a rear BBK .. look forward for a fruitful discussion here ...

Bro Ed,
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Am going progressive as per your advice. Still waiting for Desmond to bring in the SSBH plus dot 4 for all four brakes.....so next job would be the pads.
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You commented that you're using EBC black stuff which is a good stuff but it needs to be sand down....aisey a bit rugi laa like this....Further to this the Green Stuff generates too much dust as per review but the bite is nice. Not sure how much dust generated laaa... is it alot?
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Anyway, what are pads that FD2 can used without sanding? The Endless etc are all performance pads right thus, at lower temperature will not work so fine unless heated up. Am not a Brake Person but would want to have a better braking than the stock brake
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Another question I have is the brake cooling ducts. Obviously this would need to be DIY i.e. poke some holes here and there to direct the airflows to the brakes (correct me if I'm wrong ). But if the pads need to be heated up, what's the point of cooling then??
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Thanks to the sifu...and sorry if it's really a noob question...thanks

ha3x ... bro gary didnt see u awhile. now the real sifu is here.

my walking automotive encylopedia has spoken ... so i shant dwell further.

Wat type of Brake Pads ?
the EBC blackstuff works great when both cold & hot. i immediately called mr DChong of KLAuto to thank him when i got it installed.

it is temperature rated til 450C. the main diff w Greenstuff is it doesnt generate as much brake dust & works great when cold. expect about 20-30% improvement in braking efficiency. for direct experience on Greenstuff on FD, pm bro newguy becos he told me his greenstuff already into the 2nd set.

for normal drivers i would recommend Blackstuff are suffice. the only problem for our Msia FD is we are using Accord brake system and those fr EBC are the UK Accord . so the EBC ones are slightly thicker & u would need to sand them down by 1-2mm. and perhaps take out the anti-squek plates for 2-3mths. thats all.

unless u drive very spritedly at most times between the Blackstuff & Greenstuff is more than enough. the Greenstuff are rated at 550C if i m not mistaken.

apart from EBC, u can always consider other brands like Endless, Ferodo, ICON, Mugen etc etc. wats the diff ????? mucho $$$ la .

EBC Pads vs. Ori Pads
the EBC Blackstuff are sub-RM300 and work even better than the ori Honda pads. SC sells them at rm400-450/pair and outside can get it for around RM250/pair. so for a little bit more, just go for EBC Blackstuff lo.

i noted hairline cracks on my ori pad side walls. i was told a bit dangerous if the whole piece break under intense braking.

the problem with higher rated pads is use of softer compounds as well as when the pads are hot when u clamp on the rotors say at the traffic light. will cause the rotors to wear off & warp .... with softer compound, the pads get thinner faster.

Wear & Tear of Brake system
so the next consideration is wear & tear. recently i got my rear pads checked out and i was surprised that after 2yrs, i hv only used 50% of my rear stock pads. when i upgraded to EBC Blackstuff 3-4mths ago, my ori front pads still got 50% left. after 2mths in CNY i tried to put back my anti-squek plates & the caliper cannot close still. So the next consideraiton is your braking habit lo.

Wat about Slotted Rotors ?
if u plan to upgrade to slotted rotors, then be prepared the slots will wear down your pads faster. imagine the ice kacang making machine. the slots make "brake dust shavings" very fast. EBC slotted rotors are coming next mth for UK Civic. So i was told Des is bringing 1set for testing.

fr my research, just stay away fr drilled rotors. when drill hole, it reduces the surface contact area of the rotor with the pads. although this was done previously to aid brake rotor cooling.

Where else to go ?
u can also head to Quicksave to get the slotted rotors from Project Mu. They are exactly 282mm and is a direct fit to the stock rotors. further they oso carry PRoject Mu Bestop pads. these give a immediate bite brake feel rather than progressive. So it oso depends on your preference.

i was told GC carries taiwan pads like Silvers or something like tat. i think some of us got Endless pads fr them oso. u guys may wanna pm bro BH since he hangs out there everyday.

SSBH
The UK made Goodridge are excellent aftermkt brakelines. i had arranged for the special GB with EBC brakefluids thrown in. if there is more interest, can arrange another GB BUT no more complimentary brakefluids lo.

maybe i try to arrange GB for SSBH + EBC Brakepads....

anyway, the other alternative is Pro-RS. its ok la. tat time no Goodridge SSBH for me to buy so no choice use Pro RS. so far no complains. Goodridge can order fr Klauto & PRo RS get fr Quicksave. both are our panel merchants.

John is using APP brake lines. Made in Japan punya. reputable as well. he got it fr JCRacing becos these are used by their racing team as well.

The brakelines fr J'sRacing & Mugen are sub-RM1k+ for the front only. these are tracked proven . so got $$ a lot of things can buy. no $$, nothing can buy except syiok sendiri look at it.

Brake Fluid & Bleeding of Brakes
pls dont scrooge and get good dot4 Brake Fluids. u hv a choice of Bosch, Conoco, Castrol tat are sub-RM20. or EBC Racing Brake fluids for RM60+ or Endless at RM90+.

i think the Motuls Brake dot4 fluids are good as well.

Brake cooling
the brake cooling u can head down to KLAuto for them to do it for you. just let them know "buat lobang macam kereta ED" he3x. just a 5-10min job. if u go track often then dedicated brake cooling hoses or pipes are neccessary.

another one project i m experimenting is brake cooling intake plate fr CTR.

hope tis helps.

Bro Ed, thanks for the information on the brakes.... I'm planning to change my pads as well... =) then next time round can join HPC

ooi klang paikia watsup. very long time no see u.

u need a BBK la at the rate u drive .... poison arrow coming !!!!

ronnie2k7 wrote:

Bro Ed, thanks for the informatio n on the brakes.... I'm planning to change my pads as well... =) then next time round can join HPC

ok ok very wise choice. tats wat i did oso. actually pads alone are not enough.

best is to change SSBH first then only pads. or better still, both at once. promise u wont regret ..

been following this BBK discussion for quite some time & there is 1 thing that lingers in the back of my mind. when we upgrade to BBK, can the stock brake pump handle the additional pressure or need to chg to aftermarket brake pump to ensure the braking efficiency work to the optimum level? hope all the knowledgeable bros here can shed some light on this. thanks alot.